Episode Fifteen | The Pill & the Patriarchy

Birth control, wedding dresses, and owning another human being: all real topics on today's podcast. Enjoy, kids.

Episode Fourteen | We Take It Back

We take it back. This episode features the review of only one chapter because The Skeleton in My Closet Wears a Wedding Dress just got worse. We talk about wearing white shirts to church, why temple marriage doesn't always guarantee success, and how much we'd love a well-rounded, non-cliche character. Two girls can dream.

Episode Thirteen | Spoiler Alert: It Wasn't Awful

Turns out Sally Johnson has some talent after all! We were quite pleased with lots of elements in the three chapters we review today. Also included are discussions on postpartum depression, the "ideal Mormon mom" and how feminism plays a role in "The Family: A Proclamation to the World."

Episode Twelve | The One Where Brooke Keeps Us In Check

Today we welcome Brooke to the studio as we discuss chapters 18 thru 20 of "The Skeleton in My Closet Wears a Wedding Dress." Three people in the studio is always a party, and we're glad you're here to join in.

Episode Eleven | The One Where We Get Weepy

Episode Eleven is filled with lots of tangents and a lively discussion about feminism in the Mormon community. A few tears may have been shed. Maybe. (Also chapters 15 & 16 of "The Skeleton in My Closet Wears a Wedding Dress")

Episode Ten | "All Apologies," by Nirvana (& Madie & Kate)

Episode Ten is probably our best yet! (At least according to Madie.) We talk about our first hate comment, another great comment we got, and our purpose for the show. We also dive into Chapter 15, which we have lots to say about. Stay tuned for the next episode, when we find out how Sophia's plans to change actually crash and burn.

Dear Miss Anna

A listener recently left a comment on our first episode, which gave us a few things to think about. We've decided to post her comment as well as our reply here for those who are interested to read. We like to hear feedback, and are interested in the opinions of other listeners out there on some of the topics this listener addresses. Email us at femfunpodcast@gmail.com or comment on this posting and we'll chat when we upload our next episode (which should be tomorrow!).

Her Comment

I just recently found your podcasts and the name intrigued me so I decided to listen. I started with your first one and was excited since I've actually read the book you were discussing. Only a few minutes in though I had to stop. It wasn't intelligent book club type discussion but just plain mean commentary. As I clicked through a few more podcasts I couldn't believe that you had already dedicated 7 whole hours to so much hate, anger, judgment, cruelty, and destruction of someone else's art. I was so angry and hurt for the author but didn't want to do to you girls what you had done to her, so I closed your blog. But then today I watched this Ted talk about public humiliation and shaming and didn't want to stay silent. I would encourage you girls to watch it as well. http://youtu.be/H_8y0WLm78U

Our Reply

Anna,

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment; we’re glad to see that more than just those within our immediate circle of friends are listening to our podcast. We’d like to take this opportunity to address some of the issues you mentioned in your statement.

Your first critique of the show is its lack of an “intelligent book club type discussion.” While critiquing the literature itself was one our objectives, it was not one of our main goals. Rather, we are using Johnson’s novel as a way to launch ourselves into a discussion about Mormon culture and stereotypes we feel are propelled by her work. However, we also talk about the literature—about her writing style, about character development, about plot points and their use for the story as a whole—which are all things that we feel should be included in a book club discussion. In this case, we feel our podcast is in fact, a book club discussion—just not one that fit your expectations. (You should also know that we discuss the positive as well as the negative—see the end of Episode Nine).

You also mentioned that you clicked through a few more podcasts and “couldn’t believe that [we] had already dedicated 7 whole hours to so much hate, anger, judgment, and cruelty, and destruction of someone else’s art.” We’re saddened that you did not do more than “click through” a few of our episodes rather than listening fully to what we had to say before you yourself passed judgment. If you had given yourself the chance to listen to our podcast in full, you would have heard us talk about a few things. We’ve listed them here, along with the episode so you can hear us first hand:

·      Our purpose for creating this podcast. (Episode Four)

·      Creative writing is difficult. (Episode Eight)

·      We will not talk about Johnson herself—only her novel. (Episode Nine)

What you failed to realize was that we are critiquing Johnson’s art—not Johnson herself. We believe, as literary critics, that critiquing art does not necessarily inflict judgment upon the author itself. This was never our intention. Oscar Wilde said it best in his essay, “The Critic as Artist.” The essay details the conversation of two men, during which one asks the other, “What is the use of. . . criticism? Why cannot the artist be left alone, to create a new world if he wishes it. . . Why should the artist be troubled by the shrill clamor of criticism? Why should those who cannot create take upon themselves to estimate the value of creative work? What can they know about it?”

The reply to this question comes in several forms, among them “Without the critical faculty, there is no artistic creation.” But perhaps it is best expressed in these lines:

"There has never been a creative age that has not been critical also. For it is the critical faculty that invents fresh forms. The tendency of creation is to repeat itself. It is to the critical instinct that we owe each new school that springs up, each new mold that art finds ready to its hand.”

Criticism is necessary for art to flourish. Johnson, like other authors (Wilde himself included), offered a chance for commentary, both positive and negative, by publishing her work. This is the plight of all artists, whether through a brush or a keyboard. We realize that creating art is difficult. We ourselves are writers, creators, artists. We too gave people a chance to comment on our work, a freedom which you have just exercised. Our form of criticism is not meant to attack the author personally (this is called an ad hominum argument), but the art itself.

This brings us to the TED talk you shared with us. The speech by Monica Lewinsky did not deal with the criticism of art, which is the kind of criticism we engage in during our show. She speaks about personal attacks—ad hominum arguments—and the damage they cause. We do not dispute the claims she makes about how devastating those terrible, individualized messages can be. But we also feel no responsibility in this manner for what we have said. We have not messaged Johnson personally to tell her we dislike her book. We have not said anything unwarranted or unkind about her as a person, merely as an author. And while we own our opinions and state at the beginning of every episode that they do not reflect those of the Church or those of BYU, they are our opinions. We accept responsibility for them, but we also feel they have a right to be said.

Hopefully you can see, at least in part, that this was our goal in starting the program. Thank you again for taking the time to listen to a part of our show.

 

Best,

Kate & Madie

 

 

Episode Nine | Return of the Jedi (& Kate & Madie)

We're back! After an extended hiatus, we've returned to the podcast world. Here's Episode Nine for you kids. A little lengthy, but lots to talk about!