Episode Eleven is filled with lots of tangents and a lively discussion about feminism in the Mormon community. A few tears may have been shed. Maybe. (Also chapters 15 & 16 of "The Skeleton in My Closet Wears a Wedding Dress")
So I finished the book. And honestly, there is never a detailed explanation given as to why Sophia and Travis divorced. So...I hope I'm fairly extrapalating when I give this explanation for their divorce: I feel like the reason both Sophia and Travis got married was to essentially "play house." Now, that "house" for Travis came with a model wife, his BMW, etc. When his parents stopped supporting him (which could partially be due to how they felt about Sophia herself), I feel like Travis decided he valued the previous lifestyle more so than his wife. Sophia admits they didn't really know each other well...but I don't think they really connected over anything stronger than the excitement of "finally" getting married. Travis strongest loyalty is to himself, and when things got real...he bailed. I think they loved the idea of each other more than anything. Whenever Sophia talks about Travis, I don't feel like she ever gives clear examples of why she loved him other than his looks. They don't seem to have connected spiritually or on many of the fundamental relationship levels.
1. I’m all about reclaiming feminism (or maybe more accurately challenging perceptions of feminism. Particularly within Mormonism, but also within American culture broadly. I’m not sure that feminism itself has been used negatively enough to need to be reclaimed). Anyway, proud to be a feminist—although I may not do much good for the image of feminists within the Church given my radical politics and questioning-skeptical nature, but hey, I’m a card-carrying member, so that’s worth something, right? 2. Regarding the chatter about individuals doing their own thing, I’m always struck by the verse in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C 58:26) that says it’s not meet for God to command in all things. That combined with some somewhat surprising remarks from Elder Oaks about the Brethren and GenConf primarily being about providing broad principles, with individuals occasionally needing to work out exceptions—but that’s between each individual and God. (There’s an absolutely brilliant piece by Pres. J. Reuben Clark about determining when Church leaders’ remarks should be treated as scripture: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/ClarkWhenAreWritings.pdf tl;dr= the Holy Ghost will witness to you of the truthfulness and if it doesn’t, then it’s not true.) 3. You chatted about The Family: A Proclamation to the World, a document that provides a lot of angst in the progressive Mormon community. I think it’s important to realize that while we should treat it as an inspired document, it has never been canonized and there have been some edits to GenConf addresses that referred to it as ‘scripture’ to reference it as an ‘inspired document’ (at least I think that was the final wording, it might have been something else, but the point is that the change lessened the doctrinal weight of the Proclamation). Also, fun sidenote: the Proclamation notes that “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” ‘Gender’ isn’t the same as ‘sex,’ although they are commonly used interchangeably. ‘Gender’ usually refers to the roles that are associated with a particular sex, whereas sex is all about biology. Some hidden progressive thought in the Proclamation? Or is it just classic Mormon aversion to saying sex? I can’t say, but I’m all for some subtle subversion…
4. I’m going to push back a bit on the idea of men never having people tell them what to do, which you softened yourselves and frequently say that patriarchy hurts men too. Now, I don’t think that men face the same challenges that women do from a patriarchal structure, but there are undeniably certain roles that are expected of men. As a self-identified geeky, less-than-macho, scrawny dude I’ve often felt that pressure (I mean, I even took a weight-lifting class in high school, where I mostly just embarrassed myself). Scouts and priesthood are usually blah (YSA wards occasionally have a ‘Manly Moment’ time in EQ, which makes me want to vom). I love the color purple and have since I can remember, but stopped saying that was my favorite color when I was 8 or 9 because that wasn’t a color acceptable for me to choose. As an English major, I’m constantly bombarded with questions about what I’m going to do with it (an occurrence that I think is common to Humanities majors of both genders, but seems to carry a different sort of weight and judgment for men than it does for women, given the 1950s-provider role still associated with men in Mormonism). Luckily, my family is incredibly supportive of what I’m doing and I’ve always had a contrarian-stick-it-to-the-man sort of streak with a devil-may-care attitude, but I just wanted to bear witness of the harms that patriarchy and restrictive gender roles brings to men. Feminism and equality for the win! Smash the patriarchy! 5. Spiritual independence is definitely a necessity and I think one of the greatest benefits that will come to Mormon culture from more girls/women serving missions. Not that you need to serve a mission, but I think that experience will help equalize the playing field and make it less culturally acceptable for men to play spiritual trump cards, which is just ridiculous. Everyone should be a Gospel scholar, after all, no one is saved in ignorance…not even married folk. 6. Your chatting about the saving power of childbirth reminded me of an interesting, but for me ultimately unsatisfying, idea presented by Valerie Hudson in her address The Two Trees (http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2010-fair-conference/2010-the-two-trees).
7. I love my parents, although we think very differently about a number of issues. I trace a lot of my opinions and development back to how they raised me (which I think is a great compliment, and they may not find as complimentary). We’ve had oodles of great chats about Gospel topics and they always encouraged me (and all my siblings) to find our answers in the scriptures, rather than bogus-folk-doctrine-rubbish that was spouted unsourced in Seminary or Sunday school. That being said, I try and avoid a lot of political topics with them, since it just doesn’t end well usually. 8. I’m also a growing fan (and amateur practitioner) of well-placed cursing. I think language is a tool at our disposal, meant to help us express things and sometimes the best (and really only) way for things to be expressed is with profanity. Also, there’s an unappreciated artform to cursing (the movie In the Loop has some of the most creative and hilarious cursing I have ever heard. It’s marvelous). 9. The review chatter touched on some pet peeves of mine that seem to persist in most Mormon-centric conversations about entertainment. I’ll be brief, since I could rant for a long time about this: a) Feeling uncomfortable does not mean something is bad, b) Portraying sin/other offensive material is not inherently promoting it, c) Outsourcing your moral choices to a group of random people who don’t share your standards is ludicrous, d) Some things are rubbish and should be labeled as such. 10. They idea of being in love with someone and that meaning that you should forget about your personal dreams and ambitions just feels wrong to me. I feel like even in a healthy, fulfilling relationship you need to grow as an individual. I mean, if you aren’t growing as an individual, then how can you grow as a couple? And what better way to grow than by pursuing your dreams? 11. One of my favorite doctrines and teachings within Mormonism is the idea that all truth, regardless of the source (scientific, political, philosophical, historical, etc.), comes from God and is a part of the Gospel. The Restoration is meant to bring all truth together. There’s a beautiful John Taylor quote about gathering all truth together and wanting to float in it: “If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it; I care not what shape it comes in to me, who brings it, or who believes in it; whether it is popular or unpopular, truth, eternal truth, I wish to float in and enjoy.” 12. Education is about way more than job preparedness. I think that’s something we’re sort of losing sight of nationally, although the Cultural problems within Mormonism are a bit different. Education gives you knowledge and skills that are useful regardless of whether you enter the work-force full-time or not. You become a more productive and informed member of society, can better yourself, and are given tools to better help others (whether that be children, people you serve at Church, neighbors, family, friends, co-workers, whoever). Get educated.
13. THEORIES (mostly tongue in cheek, since I haven’t read any of the book): Bad sex (they probably just didn’t listen to the HG, who was whispering to them what to do, as I learned in Sunday School once at BYU)? Her cooking’s not good? She forgot to put on make-up? He’s a total tool-bag? They realized that eternity is a really long time? One of them is going to be the single-parent for a Disney protagonist? They’re actually living in a Spielberg film, where families are always slightly broken? Sophie forgot to make him breakfast in bed? She told his friends about his secret copy of the BBC Pride and Prejudice (based on a real-life anecdote I was told)?
So I finished the book. And honestly, there is never a detailed explanation given as to why Sophia and Travis divorced. So...I hope I'm fairly extrapalating when I give this explanation for their divorce:
ReplyDeleteI feel like the reason both Sophia and Travis got married was to essentially "play house." Now, that "house" for Travis came with a model wife, his BMW, etc. When his parents stopped supporting him (which could partially be due to how they felt about Sophia herself), I feel like Travis decided he valued the previous lifestyle more so than his wife. Sophia admits they didn't really know each other well...but I don't think they really connected over anything stronger than the excitement of "finally" getting married. Travis strongest loyalty is to himself, and when things got real...he bailed. I think they loved the idea of each other more than anything. Whenever Sophia talks about Travis, I don't feel like she ever gives clear examples of why she loved him other than his looks. They don't seem to have connected spiritually or on many of the fundamental relationship levels.
1. I’m all about reclaiming feminism (or maybe more accurately challenging perceptions of feminism. Particularly within Mormonism, but also within American culture broadly. I’m not sure that feminism itself has been used negatively enough to need to be reclaimed). Anyway, proud to be a feminist—although I may not do much good for the image of feminists within the Church given my radical politics and questioning-skeptical nature, but hey, I’m a card-carrying member, so that’s worth something, right?
ReplyDelete2. Regarding the chatter about individuals doing their own thing, I’m always struck by the verse in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C 58:26) that says it’s not meet for God to command in all things. That combined with some somewhat surprising remarks from Elder Oaks about the Brethren and GenConf primarily being about providing broad principles, with individuals occasionally needing to work out exceptions—but that’s between each individual and God. (There’s an absolutely brilliant piece by Pres. J. Reuben Clark about determining when Church leaders’ remarks should be treated as scripture: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/ClarkWhenAreWritings.pdf tl;dr= the Holy Ghost will witness to you of the truthfulness and if it doesn’t, then it’s not true.)
3. You chatted about The Family: A Proclamation to the World, a document that provides a lot of angst in the progressive Mormon community. I think it’s important to realize that while we should treat it as an inspired document, it has never been canonized and there have been some edits to GenConf addresses that referred to it as ‘scripture’ to reference it as an ‘inspired document’ (at least I think that was the final wording, it might have been something else, but the point is that the change lessened the doctrinal weight of the Proclamation). Also, fun sidenote: the Proclamation notes that “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” ‘Gender’ isn’t the same as ‘sex,’ although they are commonly used interchangeably. ‘Gender’ usually refers to the roles that are associated with a particular sex, whereas sex is all about biology. Some hidden progressive thought in the Proclamation? Or is it just classic Mormon aversion to saying sex? I can’t say, but I’m all for some subtle subversion…
4. I’m going to push back a bit on the idea of men never having people tell them what to do, which you softened yourselves and frequently say that patriarchy hurts men too. Now, I don’t think that men face the same challenges that women do from a patriarchal structure, but there are undeniably certain roles that are expected of men. As a self-identified geeky, less-than-macho, scrawny dude I’ve often felt that pressure (I mean, I even took a weight-lifting class in high school, where I mostly just embarrassed myself). Scouts and priesthood are usually blah (YSA wards occasionally have a ‘Manly Moment’ time in EQ, which makes me want to vom). I love the color purple and have since I can remember, but stopped saying that was my favorite color when I was 8 or 9 because that wasn’t a color acceptable for me to choose. As an English major, I’m constantly bombarded with questions about what I’m going to do with it (an occurrence that I think is common to Humanities majors of both genders, but seems to carry a different sort of weight and judgment for men than it does for women, given the 1950s-provider role still associated with men in Mormonism). Luckily, my family is incredibly supportive of what I’m doing and I’ve always had a contrarian-stick-it-to-the-man sort of streak with a devil-may-care attitude, but I just wanted to bear witness of the harms that patriarchy and restrictive gender roles brings to men. Feminism and equality for the win! Smash the patriarchy!
ReplyDelete5. Spiritual independence is definitely a necessity and I think one of the greatest benefits that will come to Mormon culture from more girls/women serving missions. Not that you need to serve a mission, but I think that experience will help equalize the playing field and make it less culturally acceptable for men to play spiritual trump cards, which is just ridiculous. Everyone should be a Gospel scholar, after all, no one is saved in ignorance…not even married folk.
6. Your chatting about the saving power of childbirth reminded me of an interesting, but for me ultimately unsatisfying, idea presented by Valerie Hudson in her address The Two Trees (http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2010-fair-conference/2010-the-two-trees).
7. I love my parents, although we think very differently about a number of issues. I trace a lot of my opinions and development back to how they raised me (which I think is a great compliment, and they may not find as complimentary). We’ve had oodles of great chats about Gospel topics and they always encouraged me (and all my siblings) to find our answers in the scriptures, rather than bogus-folk-doctrine-rubbish that was spouted unsourced in Seminary or Sunday school. That being said, I try and avoid a lot of political topics with them, since it just doesn’t end well usually.
ReplyDelete8. I’m also a growing fan (and amateur practitioner) of well-placed cursing. I think language is a tool at our disposal, meant to help us express things and sometimes the best (and really only) way for things to be expressed is with profanity. Also, there’s an unappreciated artform to cursing (the movie In the Loop has some of the most creative and hilarious cursing I have ever heard. It’s marvelous).
9. The review chatter touched on some pet peeves of mine that seem to persist in most Mormon-centric conversations about entertainment. I’ll be brief, since I could rant for a long time about this: a) Feeling uncomfortable does not mean something is bad, b) Portraying sin/other offensive material is not inherently promoting it, c) Outsourcing your moral choices to a group of random people who don’t share your standards is ludicrous, d) Some things are rubbish and should be labeled as such.
10. They idea of being in love with someone and that meaning that you should forget about your personal dreams and ambitions just feels wrong to me. I feel like even in a healthy, fulfilling relationship you need to grow as an individual. I mean, if you aren’t growing as an individual, then how can you grow as a couple? And what better way to grow than by pursuing your dreams?
11. One of my favorite doctrines and teachings within Mormonism is the idea that all truth, regardless of the source (scientific, political, philosophical, historical, etc.), comes from God and is a part of the Gospel. The Restoration is meant to bring all truth together. There’s a beautiful John Taylor quote about gathering all truth together and wanting to float in it: “If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it; I care not what shape it comes in to me, who brings it, or who believes in it; whether it is popular or unpopular, truth, eternal truth, I wish to float in and enjoy.”
12. Education is about way more than job preparedness. I think that’s something we’re sort of losing sight of nationally, although the Cultural problems within Mormonism are a bit different. Education gives you knowledge and skills that are useful regardless of whether you enter the work-force full-time or not. You become a more productive and informed member of society, can better yourself, and are given tools to better help others (whether that be children, people you serve at Church, neighbors, family, friends, co-workers, whoever). Get educated.
13. THEORIES (mostly tongue in cheek, since I haven’t read any of the book): Bad sex (they probably just didn’t listen to the HG, who was whispering to them what to do, as I learned in Sunday School once at BYU)? Her cooking’s not good? She forgot to put on make-up? He’s a total tool-bag? They realized that eternity is a really long time? One of them is going to be the single-parent for a Disney protagonist? They’re actually living in a Spielberg film, where families are always slightly broken? Sophie forgot to make him breakfast in bed? She told his friends about his secret copy of the BBC Pride and Prejudice (based on a real-life anecdote I was told)?
ReplyDelete