Episode Twelve | The One Where Brooke Keeps Us In Check
Today we welcome Brooke to the studio as we discuss chapters 18 thru 20 of "The Skeleton in My Closet Wears a Wedding Dress." Three people in the studio is always a party, and we're glad you're here to join in.
Great work once again. Solid stuff throughout. And here goes my lengthy commenting, per usual (you need to find a devoted listener that disagrees with everything to start some fierce debates in the comment section):
1. Your lead in stories about being mistaken for the younger sibling reminded me of an experience I had last summer. I was home for a few weeks before the semester started and took my sister over to the high school so she could register and all that (she was going into her junior year). We were at the locker station and the woman there asked if I needed a locker as well. Really? I’d graduated five years earlier and don’t think I look like a high-schooler. I likely gave her a look that was something along the lines of ‘seriously? Do I look like I need a locker?’, although thankfully before I said something snarky the other woman at the table who’s in my home ward stepped in and clarified that I haven’t been in high school for a number of years. I guess I’ll just be grateful they didn’t think I was old enough for my sister to be my daughter?
2. Wow…that whole ‘Calling the Priesthood for Help’ sequence…I just don’t know quite what to say. I think some of the reason it feels ‘bleh’ to me is the idea of spiritual independence that you guys frequently chat about (in particular in the previous episode). Home-teaching can be fantastic, but rarely lives up to the potential that it has. People just kind of do it, without really trying to engage with those that they home-teach (unless it’s a YSA ward and they’re trying to flirt with them…awkward). As a home-teacher, I’ve never been really comfortable with the idea of being the sort of stand-in priesthood figure for girls’/women’s apartments, nor with the expectation that they come to me if they need a priesthood blessing or anything. Not that I wouldn’t help or don’t want to help, just that I know the last person I would usually call if I needed something is my home-teacher. I’d ask family or close friends (or just bless myself, I mean, that’s why I have the priesthood, right? *snarky snark*). That being said, I have had one incredibly spiritual experience giving a blessing to a couple of girls/women that I home-taught. I was home teaching (by myself, since my comp had peaced out of the ward) and they just asked for a blessing, when I asked if there was anything I could do (probably the only time that question has been answered with a real need). I was friends-ish with both of them, but not super close or anything, but during the blessing I felt an overwhelming sense of God’s love for them and it was beautiful. They both teared up and seemed genuinely touched by the experience. I guess that’s all to say that God can use home-teachers, but I don’t think there’s any particular need for that if the person seeking help wants to go a different route.
3. FWIW, I try and bring my home-teachees food. Not like every month, but around Christmas or finals or their birthday.
4. Oh, the Honor Code. I’ve got lots of thoughts and feelings about that, which I’ve blogged about so I’ll just link to that (here: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/of-beards-and-honor/), and then share a couple relevant thoughts. I think guilt by association stuff is ludicrous and the whole ‘tattle-tale’ culture is unhealthy and childish. Although it’s infinitely better now than it was during the late 80s and 90s when they had semi-official Honor Code informants that would gather info on students to turn them in, writing down license plate numbers from bars or known LGBT+ hangouts. Not cool.
5. The sort of side-comment about Stan’s (I think that’s what it was) being somewhat tainted by the reference in the book reminded me of a conversation I was having with a friend the other day about good ideas being shared by people you can’t stand (Russell Brand, Donald Trump, Matt Walsh, etc.) and the idea just losing all credibility or likability because of the individual associated with it. Or like pirates. I’ve loved pirates since I was about 3, so once Pirates of the Caribbean came out and everyone suddenly thought pirates were cool I was a little upset (I know, I know, hipster-angst…I should just get over my pretentious self and let others enjoy things). Mostly I was upset because when I would say I liked pirates people would think it was because of Pirates of the Caribbean, even though my pirate-love is much deeper than that (the same could be said for superheroes, The Beatles, and probably other things). Well, there’s my snobbery for the day.
6. On “sweet spirits”: It’s really unfortunate that we equate having a sweet spirit with being unattractive for a number of reasons. There’s this song from Sons of Provo that is all I can think of when I hear ‘sweet spirit’ (for better or worse) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJp9e0bFHQU. I try to avoid using sweet spirit in that context and used to use it to describe people that I wasn’t interested in being around because they seemed too good, if you know what I mean. Although, I blogged about that as well and decided to label those people “shiny happy people” lifting the phrase from R.E.M. (And here’s where I ramble about that, if you’re interested: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/shiny-happy-peopleand-not-being-one-of-them/.)
7. I’m torn on the Proposal in McDonald’s. Most of me just wonders why the hell they were in McDonald’s. I mean, besides the French fries, which are incredible in their salty goodness, you should probably avoid everything McDonald’s has to offer. However, I think that proposals should be personalized for the couple, so if McDonald’s had some sort of special connection or whatever, I guess that’s cool. I’m also all about the low-key—not like in a lazy, I don’t care way, but in a unique-special-to-us we don’t need to have a thousand camera angles sort of way.
8. “If we live for Instagram we forget to live for life.” –Madie. Amen. Own your pretentiousness, there’s nothing to be ashamed of. I think there’s a fine line between living, while trying to preserve memories and living for the response that our lives will receive from others. As I wrote that I just realized that living for social media is just another way of living as others would have you live rather than living the life you want.
9. Madie, I don’t think your nerdy/weird/you wedding will suck. Geeky weddings are awesome (at least in theory, I’ve never been to one in reality). I mean, I’m personally all about the elopement—just skip out on all the public event stuff. I’m cool with a reception, hosted by cardboard cutouts of me and my wife, programmed to say key phrases like “So good to see you!”, “Thanks so much for coming, it means a lot.”, and “We’ll have to stay in touch and have couples nights together.” That way we would still get all the gifts and we wouldn’t have to deal with the horror of greeting people I probably only vaguely want to see at that moment (I mean, that may only be horrible to me, and I’d suffer through it if need be…).
10. I think the paying for experiences idea is kind of cool actually. Just giving/asking for cash seems a bit cheap, but being able to pick an experience of sorts for the couple seems cool. Then you still have some level of personalization.
11. I’ve often thought about how Heaven is likely going to be much more like life is now, where we kind of need to learn to find the joy in the midst of pain/sorrow/difficulty, but hadn’t necessarily thought about marriage that way. I mean, it makes sense, but the way you phrased it in the episode just struck me as illustrating the need for us to find the profound/spiritual/inspiring/joyful in the mundane/quotidian/frustrating/sucky.
12. Honestly, I think there’s some value in having a checklist of some sort, with some caveats. I mean, I think the list should be made up of things that have lasting importance not like hair color, height, or musical talent. And I think the list should be more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule. But there’s value in developing a list in that it can help you crystalize what you are looking for and what sorts of things really matter to you, while also identifying what doesn’t really matter to you. Obviously, having a checklist can inhibit you and bring the focus to bits and pieces that distract from the person as a whole, so you’ve got to be careful.
13. I’m with you on the whole missions should make you a better version of you, but still you bit. I’m a huge believer in individuality and the beauty and glory of that and think missions aren’t meant to destroy who we are. (I also have oodles to say about possible changes to the missionary program, which are laid out more in depth here, fwiw: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/05/17/mission-improve-missions-for-all/)
14. The idea of having likable or sympathetic characters is an interesting one. I mean, I don’t typically enjoy things if none of the characters are likable, but does that unnecessarily limit the range of stories? Or should great authors/film-makers/etc. be able to create a likable or sympathetic character even from the most despicable? I’m less sold on the necessity of likability, as I think we can learn from stories about people that are unlikable, but that may depend on the characters remaining sympathetic to some degree. I think I can sympathize with someone without liking them. To be fair, that’s probably a different problem than the one present in the book, where the characters aren’t likable or sympathetic due to poor writing and not due to any compelling narrative reason. I dunno though. Relatability of characters is another facet of this that I’m not sure about ideal implementation.
15. Some valuable insights about maintaining individual interests, even in marriage. I’d agree that you don’t need to share interest in everything, as long as there are some things that you do have in common and the individual interests can be enjoyed without leading to neglect of the marriage and family.
I didn't think I'd end up being longer than last time, but looks like I managed it. You just had too many good thoughts--I couldn't not comment on them.
Great work once again. Solid stuff throughout. And here goes my lengthy commenting, per usual (you need to find a devoted listener that disagrees with everything to start some fierce debates in the comment section):
ReplyDelete1. Your lead in stories about being mistaken for the younger sibling reminded me of an experience I had last summer. I was home for a few weeks before the semester started and took my sister over to the high school so she could register and all that (she was going into her junior year). We were at the locker station and the woman there asked if I needed a locker as well. Really? I’d graduated five years earlier and don’t think I look like a high-schooler. I likely gave her a look that was something along the lines of ‘seriously? Do I look like I need a locker?’, although thankfully before I said something snarky the other woman at the table who’s in my home ward stepped in and clarified that I haven’t been in high school for a number of years. I guess I’ll just be grateful they didn’t think I was old enough for my sister to be my daughter?
2. Wow…that whole ‘Calling the Priesthood for Help’ sequence…I just don’t know quite what to say. I think some of the reason it feels ‘bleh’ to me is the idea of spiritual independence that you guys frequently chat about (in particular in the previous episode). Home-teaching can be fantastic, but rarely lives up to the potential that it has. People just kind of do it, without really trying to engage with those that they home-teach (unless it’s a YSA ward and they’re trying to flirt with them…awkward). As a home-teacher, I’ve never been really comfortable with the idea of being the sort of stand-in priesthood figure for girls’/women’s apartments, nor with the expectation that they come to me if they need a priesthood blessing or anything. Not that I wouldn’t help or don’t want to help, just that I know the last person I would usually call if I needed something is my home-teacher. I’d ask family or close friends (or just bless myself, I mean, that’s why I have the priesthood, right? *snarky snark*). That being said, I have had one incredibly spiritual experience giving a blessing to a couple of girls/women that I home-taught. I was home teaching (by myself, since my comp had peaced out of the ward) and they just asked for a blessing, when I asked if there was anything I could do (probably the only time that question has been answered with a real need). I was friends-ish with both of them, but not super close or anything, but during the blessing I felt an overwhelming sense of God’s love for them and it was beautiful. They both teared up and seemed genuinely touched by the experience. I guess that’s all to say that God can use home-teachers, but I don’t think there’s any particular need for that if the person seeking help wants to go a different route.
3. FWIW, I try and bring my home-teachees food. Not like every month, but around Christmas or finals or their birthday.
4. Oh, the Honor Code. I’ve got lots of thoughts and feelings about that, which I’ve blogged about so I’ll just link to that (here: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/of-beards-and-honor/), and then share a couple relevant thoughts. I think guilt by association stuff is ludicrous and the whole ‘tattle-tale’ culture is unhealthy and childish. Although it’s infinitely better now than it was during the late 80s and 90s when they had semi-official Honor Code informants that would gather info on students to turn them in, writing down license plate numbers from bars or known LGBT+ hangouts. Not cool.
ReplyDelete5. The sort of side-comment about Stan’s (I think that’s what it was) being somewhat tainted by the reference in the book reminded me of a conversation I was having with a friend the other day about good ideas being shared by people you can’t stand (Russell Brand, Donald Trump, Matt Walsh, etc.) and the idea just losing all credibility or likability because of the individual associated with it. Or like pirates. I’ve loved pirates since I was about 3, so once Pirates of the Caribbean came out and everyone suddenly thought pirates were cool I was a little upset (I know, I know, hipster-angst…I should just get over my pretentious self and let others enjoy things). Mostly I was upset because when I would say I liked pirates people would think it was because of Pirates of the Caribbean, even though my pirate-love is much deeper than that (the same could be said for superheroes, The Beatles, and probably other things). Well, there’s my snobbery for the day.
6. On “sweet spirits”: It’s really unfortunate that we equate having a sweet spirit with being unattractive for a number of reasons. There’s this song from Sons of Provo that is all I can think of when I hear ‘sweet spirit’ (for better or worse) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJp9e0bFHQU. I try to avoid using sweet spirit in that context and used to use it to describe people that I wasn’t interested in being around because they seemed too good, if you know what I mean. Although, I blogged about that as well and decided to label those people “shiny happy people” lifting the phrase from R.E.M. (And here’s where I ramble about that, if you’re interested: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/shiny-happy-peopleand-not-being-one-of-them/.)
7. I’m torn on the Proposal in McDonald’s. Most of me just wonders why the hell they were in McDonald’s. I mean, besides the French fries, which are incredible in their salty goodness, you should probably avoid everything McDonald’s has to offer. However, I think that proposals should be personalized for the couple, so if McDonald’s had some sort of special connection or whatever, I guess that’s cool. I’m also all about the low-key—not like in a lazy, I don’t care way, but in a unique-special-to-us we don’t need to have a thousand camera angles sort of way.
ReplyDelete8. “If we live for Instagram we forget to live for life.” –Madie. Amen. Own your pretentiousness, there’s nothing to be ashamed of. I think there’s a fine line between living, while trying to preserve memories and living for the response that our lives will receive from others. As I wrote that I just realized that living for social media is just another way of living as others would have you live rather than living the life you want.
9. Madie, I don’t think your nerdy/weird/you wedding will suck. Geeky weddings are awesome (at least in theory, I’ve never been to one in reality). I mean, I’m personally all about the elopement—just skip out on all the public event stuff. I’m cool with a reception, hosted by cardboard cutouts of me and my wife, programmed to say key phrases like “So good to see you!”, “Thanks so much for coming, it means a lot.”, and “We’ll have to stay in touch and have couples nights together.” That way we would still get all the gifts and we wouldn’t have to deal with the horror of greeting people I probably only vaguely want to see at that moment (I mean, that may only be horrible to me, and I’d suffer through it if need be…).
10. I think the paying for experiences idea is kind of cool actually. Just giving/asking for cash seems a bit cheap, but being able to pick an experience of sorts for the couple seems cool. Then you still have some level of personalization.
ReplyDelete11. I’ve often thought about how Heaven is likely going to be much more like life is now, where we kind of need to learn to find the joy in the midst of pain/sorrow/difficulty, but hadn’t necessarily thought about marriage that way. I mean, it makes sense, but the way you phrased it in the episode just struck me as illustrating the need for us to find the profound/spiritual/inspiring/joyful in the mundane/quotidian/frustrating/sucky.
12. Honestly, I think there’s some value in having a checklist of some sort, with some caveats. I mean, I think the list should be made up of things that have lasting importance not like hair color, height, or musical talent. And I think the list should be more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule. But there’s value in developing a list in that it can help you crystalize what you are looking for and what sorts of things really matter to you, while also identifying what doesn’t really matter to you. Obviously, having a checklist can inhibit you and bring the focus to bits and pieces that distract from the person as a whole, so you’ve got to be careful.
13. I’m with you on the whole missions should make you a better version of you, but still you bit. I’m a huge believer in individuality and the beauty and glory of that and think missions aren’t meant to destroy who we are. (I also have oodles to say about possible changes to the missionary program, which are laid out more in depth here, fwiw: https://conorhilton.wordpress.com/2015/05/17/mission-improve-missions-for-all/)
ReplyDelete14. The idea of having likable or sympathetic characters is an interesting one. I mean, I don’t typically enjoy things if none of the characters are likable, but does that unnecessarily limit the range of stories? Or should great authors/film-makers/etc. be able to create a likable or sympathetic character even from the most despicable? I’m less sold on the necessity of likability, as I think we can learn from stories about people that are unlikable, but that may depend on the characters remaining sympathetic to some degree. I think I can sympathize with someone without liking them. To be fair, that’s probably a different problem than the one present in the book, where the characters aren’t likable or sympathetic due to poor writing and not due to any compelling narrative reason. I dunno though. Relatability of characters is another facet of this that I’m not sure about ideal implementation.
15. Some valuable insights about maintaining individual interests, even in marriage. I’d agree that you don’t need to share interest in everything, as long as there are some things that you do have in common and the individual interests can be enjoyed without leading to neglect of the marriage and family.
I didn't think I'd end up being longer than last time, but looks like I managed it. You just had too many good thoughts--I couldn't not comment on them.